[recruiting] Marvel's "THE DEFENDERS" PbP

[Saker]

Hi Kev

I believe this PbP fits my preferences that I expressed here.

Dr. Strange is one of my favorite characters, but I don't know how to build him with 40 points. I'll take suggestions. Dragonfly's build was at 71. I found a site that documents all of Doc Strange's powers, and it would be struggle to get near his power set, because he demonstrated that he can do almost everything at the same time. He might be better as an NPC.

I'll review the other Defender options for inspiration. I found this wiki with a good roster of Defenders. There's quite a diversity in point values from Doc Strange and the Hulk to Howard the Duck and Daredevil.

Can you provide some guidance on what power level you plan to run the Pbp? So we can guage, which characters may be better than others.

EDIT: I could play submariner. He can be done in 30 points.

cheers

[kevperrine]

Hey guys!
For fun I modeled up builds for both POWER MAN and Dr. STRANGE...


first up...

Power Man
Mark Lucas, Hero for Hire, Black Avegner, Ace of Spades
Name: Carl Lucas; Luke Cage (legally changed)

"Mental Malfunction: Born & raised in Harlem - sent to prison for a crime he didnot commit. In exchange for parole, clandestinely underwent experimental procedures, granting him steel-hard skin & enhanced muscle - Forging the identity ""POWER MAN"" a ""hero for hire.
Chip on his shoulder, slow to trust, known for rather rough outlook for a superhero. "
Quote: "Sweet Christmas!"

----------Stats----------
BRAWN: 3+3
AGILITY: 2
MIND: 1
SOAK: x5+3RB, Heightened Brawn, Armor
DEFENSE: x2
MENTAL DEFENSE: x1

----------Powers----------
DANG STRONG! (Heightened BRAWN) +3RB: Dmg & Soak; Lifting benchmarks tripled.

IMPENETRABLE SKIN! (Armor 3)
L: Always On - cannot be lacerated by conventional materials;
this superhuman durability is a hindrance if suffering injuries very severe requiring surgery, such as internal injuries.

GET YER BUTT UP! (Healing 2)
In combat (Panel) Heal x2 as Dmg roll; Outside combat 20 Hits/hour.

KNUCKLE SANDWICHES! (Weapon Technique 2)
E: Variable - +x2 "boost" to Hit or Dmg. (max x5)
"HAYMAKER": Dmg = x5+3RB; Hit = x2
"ROUND HOUSE": Dmg = x4+3RB; Hit = x3.
"JAB STEP": Dmg = x3+3RB; Hit = x4.

BAD STREET BRAWLER! (Martial Arts Mastery 2) Grappling, Tricky, Tough.
Grappling: reverse hold when succeed by 10+; All wrestling rolls +x1.
Tricky: if HtH misses & rolled doubles on Def, immediate counter Atk.
Tough: Brawn +x2 Soak & Knockback from HtH Atks. (doesn't overlap w/Armor)
E: LINKED: (Swift Strike) Extra Hand-to-Hand per Page @ -1DP.

SELF TAUGHT (Skillful 1) +2 Skill Slots.

----------Advantages----------
Fearless, Never Surrender
----------Disadvantages----------
Public ID

----------Skills----------
Stealth/Palm & Plant, Athletics/Acrobatics
Investigation/Questioning, Security/Locks, Social Science/Law

----------Weakness----------
Damaging-Adamantium weapons = double Dmg before Soak.

----------Breakdown----------
Breakdown: 23= Stats: 12, Ads/Disads: 1, Powers: 12, Weakness: -2

----------The Origin Of...----------
Dr. Noah Burstein recruited Lucas as a volunteer for experimental cell regeneration based on a variant of the Super-Soldier process he had previously used to empower Warhawk. Burstein immersed Lucas in an electrical field conducted by an organic chemical compound; when he left Lucas unattended, Rackham misused the experiment's controls, hoping to maim or kill Lucas. Lucas's treatment was accelerated past its intent, inducing body-wide enhancement that gave him superhuman strength and durability.


----------RESOURCES----------
Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Cage
Marvel Universe Wiki http://marvel.com/universe/Cage,_Luke
Marvel Database http://marvel.wikia.com/Luke_Cage_%28Earth-616%29

BUILD COMMENTARY
Okay... I love Luke. I love Luke in retro-spect! I never read much Heroes-for-Hire, I knew of Danny & Luke, but I never really *learned* to appreciate the love until Bendis' series "ALIAS" with Jessica Jones who ended up marrying Luke. And then my love of Danny (Iron Fist) spiked when he took the horns, to help Matt while in prison - making everyone think Daredevil was still prowling *'s Kitchen!
ANYWAY.... I love Luke. 'Nuff said.

STATS
I think everyone can agree with my stats for Luke's Agility/Mind. Some might give him a Brawn 4. I chose not to based on presenting him as his iconic 1970's rookie version. In modern times he'd be up high lifting somewhere in the 25 ton range. But with Heightened giving him Brawn x3+3 his lift and power seem to fit the iconic I was shooting for...

POWERS
"Impenetrable Skin" is a favorite of mine. I wanted to show the fact that you can't get through it... almost nothing can. Then I remembered his (somewhat) recent near death experience in the Avengers. I thought making it a Limitation would both get across what I wanted to show and also lend to the fact it CAN be a problem!
One sidebar, rules question I have for my build here. Can he hate SOAK: x5+3RB? Or does the Armor power limit it to NOT be able to have the +3RB tacked on?

"Get Yer Butt Up" I thought would be a fun way to describe Luke's quick healing/recovery ability.

For "Knuckle Sandwiches" & "Bad Street Brawler" I chose different ways to show his fighting prowess. He has trained with Iron Fist, but he's still a street slugger mostly. I liked the Weapon Technique power to show a Variable "boost" (as the power describes) to have a few different punch styles, sorta mimicing Special Attack without needing to spend more than needed. Linking his fighting techniques with some extra panel action I thought was appropriate.

"Self Taught"? Well... it almost seems like ALL Marvel characters need a mini-boost to have more Skill Slots, even in their rookie forms... hehe

ADVs/DISADs & SKILLS
These explain themselves...

WEAKNESS
Something's gotta get through, and it's been show Adamantium is it...

Otherwise...
Pretty simple build.

[kevperrine]

next up

Dr. STRANGE
Sorcerer Supreme, Master of the Mystic Arts
Name: Stephen Vincent Strange

"Mental Malfunction: After a car crash, surgeons saved Strange but nerves in his hands were destroyed. Surgical career over & too vain to accept lesser positions, he exhausted fame/fortune following every rumored treatment, no matter how legit. Hearing rumors of a mystical Ancient One, he left all behind.
Ultimately becoming Sorcerer Supreme!"
Quote: "By the sands that time has shifted, By the Winds of weird Watoomb, Let the masking veil be lifted, Though it means a demon's doom!"

----------Stats----------
BRAWN: 1
AGILITY: 2
MIND: 3
SOAK: x1,
DEFENSE: x2
MENTAL DEFENSE: x5, Mind Shield 1

----------Powers----------
OVER EDUCATED! (Skillful 1) +2 Skill Slots.
MAGIC MINDED (Boost Mind 2) MIND x5; Circ: only Magic Atk/Def.
IMPENETRABLE MIND (Mind Shield 1) +x2 Mental Defense.
MIND MAGIC (Telepath 3) Mind contest: read/broadcast
ASTRAL FORM (Astral Projection/Ghost Form 3) harmed by energy/mental
MYSTIC SHIELD (Force Field 1) Hits80; Soak10. Area Med Arc 8x1sq(40'x5')
Note: use on opponents as "MYSTS OF MORPHEUS" to immobilize!
ELDRITCH BLAST (Special Attack 3) Close Rng 5sq; Atk x3; Dmg x7.

SORCERER SUPREME SPELLS (Omnipotence 1) Dimensional/Universal
1 Lvls in any power (except Intense Training/Cosmic)

CLOAK OF LEVITATION (Flight 1) 5sq (25')
L: Gadget - Easily Taken. E: Extra Effects as Power Stunts the cloak can
animate for retrieving, attacking/enwrapping, & magical Atk protection.

EYE OF AGAMOTTO (Multi-Power = 7 CP)
L: Gadget -- Easily Taken.
DISPELLING LIGHT (Immunity 1) see through illusion/disguise.
LINKED (Confusion 1) MIND contest or -2DP blinding.
IMPART MIND-MAGIC (Boost Mind 2) E: Affect Other with MIND 3 or Mental power. [3]
ILLUSIONS PAST (Clairvoyance 1 - past) 30Mind check gen. knowlege. [1]
LINKED (Illusion 2) Variable (free) [2]
----------Advantages----------
Contacts [disciple of the Ancient One; numerous mystic entities.], Celebrity [World-renowned neurosurgeon. Sorcerer Supreme.], Headquarters [Sanctum Sanctorum (= 1/2 CPs)], Grimoire [Book of Vishanti & the Darkhold], Super Vehicle [The Orb of Agamotto (= 5 CPs less than Strange)]
----------Disadvantages----------
Physically Challenged [nerve-damaged hands prevent delicate tasks.], Rogue’s Gallery [enemies of Sorcerer Supreme…], Arch-Enemy [Dormammu the Dreaded One.], Ward [Manservant: Wong]

----------Skills----------
Stealth 2 (x3)/Prowling
Medicine 2 (x4)/Neurosurgeon, Occultism 3 (x5)/Mystic Entities

----------Weakness----------


----------Breakdown----------
Breakdown: 41= Stats: 12, Ads/Disads: 0, Powers: 29, Weakness: 0

----------The Origin Of...----------
Stephen Strange was a brilliant, ambitious, and somewhat arrogant neurosurgeon whose meteoric career was cut short when an accident injured his hands. Seeking another way - becoming the Earth dimension's Sorcerer Supreme - Strange has initially remained aloof from New York's superhero community. He has, during his tenure, successfully thwarted many would-be magical tyrants, including his oldest nemesis, Baron Mordo; prevented numerous extradimensional invasions by other Sorc e rers Supreme, most notably Dormammu the Dreaded One.


----------RESOURCES----------
Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Strange
Marvel Universe Wiki http://marvel.com/universe/Doctor_Stran ... Strange%29
Marvel Database http://marvel.wikia.com/Stephen_Strange_%28Earth-616%29

Dr. Strange has three primary sources:
the invocation of powerful mystic entities or objects
the manipulation of the universe's ambient magical energy
his own psychic resources.

Cloak of Levitation
http://marvel.com/universe/Cloak_of_Levitation
the Eye of Agamotto
http://marvel.com/universe/Eye_of_Agamotto
the Orb of Agamotto
http://marvel.com/universe/Orb_of_Agamotto
the Book of the Vishanti
houses every known counterspell
http://marvel.com/universe/
the Darkhold
Indestructible
extremely powerful black magic spells, so strong, the user ends up forfeiting his or her soul in exchange.
http://marvel.com/universe/Darkhold

Headquarters:
Sanctum Sanctorum
http://marvel.wikia.com/Doctor_Strange%27s_Mansion
The structure of the townhouse and the ground beneath it is a nexus point for supernatural energies. Reputed to be haunted but is indeed magically "alive". More space on the inside. Mystical labyrinthine corridors and seemingly endless succession of rooms. Arrangement of rooms, hallways, furniture change constantly.
Protected from magical invasion.
1st Floor: Furnace, Laundry, Storage Cellar, Foyer, Drawing Room, Library, Living Room, Dining Room, Kitchen
2nd Floor: Master Bedroom, Guest Quarters, Study, Servant Quarters
3rd Floor: Meditation Chamber, Library, Occult Artifact Storage, Chamber of Shadows (where Orb of Agamotto is kept)

BUILD COMMENTARY

STATS
Strange's stats were straight forward. Some might raise his Mind to x4. I decided to go with a Boost for Magic based attack/defenses and Mind Shield. Raising some of his Skills with extra Slots to fit the brilliant surgeon and occult master that Stephen is... without over-inflating his normal intelligence. I toyed with having a base Mind 2, but went with x3 anyway.

POWERS
WHEW!! This is where Strange (and most major magi) are really hard to narrow down. With spells... He can do nearly ANYTHING.
And... Though I picked and chose between "core" powers that we see him use in EVERY comic he's in... His utility powers (Omnipotence) and several Advantages - make up the rest - combined with use of Hero Die Power Stunts when necessary.

As noted. I chose to go with only the "core" powers for his "Iconic" form. I'm sure even my choices could be narrowed down more if wanted.
Basically Strange's core powers are: blast, shield and flight. With a few extras like a need for Skillful, Boost of his Mind (for magics), a Mind Shield, and Telepathy rounding his main abilities out...
Funny... as I was building I began to stat out the "Mysts of Morpheus" as Immobilization which Strange uses a good deal. But then I thought - why not just let the player use his Force Field power for this instead?!... I think it works well and is more efficient with number and cost of powers.

"Omnipotence" is a BIG power, and it's a Cosmic power... but I felt it necessary. This power mimics his ability to literally cast a spell for anything. I decided NOT to give him powers that he uses regularly (but not every issue) such as Summoning or Telekinesis... I thought this would handle those many powers as needed.
To be completely comfortable (if this were less of a "rookie" version of Strange) I'd liked to have had Omnipotence be at Lvl 3. But I thought for the rookie/Iconic he'd be fine at Lvl 1, and able to keep in mind that he can raise the level by pushing the power if necessary.

Strange's Cloak and the Eye are his main gadgets used all the time. So I made them part of the build. Other magic items such as the Orb of Aggamotto, two main spellbooks, and his Sanctum - I decided could be shown as Advantages to give them their OWN power points to build with!
Otherwise... the Cloak and Eye... do the things they can do with some ability to Hero Die Power Stunt if needed.

ADVs/DISADs & SKILLS
Most explain themselves...
As noted above there are a few things that *could* be powers positioned as Advantages for this rookie/Iconic version.
For "Summoning" I use "Contacts" allowing him the description to Power Stunt or just asking the Narrator to contact an entity.
For his Sanctum, this is the definition of Headquarters to build if the player wants.
For the Orb of Aggamotto... I thought, then it hit me - the Orb is essentially rarely used and it's primary (costly) power is it's teleport/gateway/dimensional uses. I built out the Orb as Example then thought - why not make it as a "Super Vehicle"!! with it's own build points?!!
And Grimoire (from "Fantasy" section in BASH!) is perfect for his two main tomes, allowing him to literally change anything in this power set with time... ie... looking up the rituals in the books!


No weaknesses for Strange... And even with all the cut-backs for my rookie/Iconic version he STILL clocks in above 40 pts!! Strange isn't much more "powerful" than any other "World Class" hero, but he's very very versatile, hence the costs...

Easy-Peasy!

[kevperrine]

Dr. Strange ... it would be struggle to get near his power set, because he demonstrated that he can do almost everything at the same time. He might be better as an NPC.

NAH! Go for him!!
The good doctor is a great character for play! Yes.... powerful, but that's why we play BASH! As you will see, I created a sample version of Strange - I kept him around 40 CPs. He is "weaker" in some areas than you might think and/or he may seem to be missing a power or twelve...
I will be writing a "BUILD COMMENTARY" to those samples I created for explanations.
But for quick on Strange - my thought is two-fold.

1. For THIS style campaign, these should be the "iconic" versions of the characters. I wanted to have a more classic/simple campaign, similar to the Avengers animated series, so it's okay to simplify as much as you want or have the heroes with "rookie" power levels or missing some powers they'd learn later.

2. For Strange, he's one of those *can do anything* characters that I don't feel always need 100% defined. Things like using "Omnipotence" power - can "fill out" alot of those powers he would use as spell castings, such as his conjuring/summoning or telekinesis type powers... Add in "Pushing the Power" to get a higher level if needed! And for many things - such as his Sanctum or the Orb of Aggamotto: they can be represented as Headquarters and Super Vehicle (that's the primary power of the Orb) and get their own power points to build. Contacts and such can also represent him contacting/calling other entities...

For those reasons, I didn't think he'd need modeled with EVERY power. Just the ones you see him use in EVERY comic book he's in. Such as flight, shield, and blast.

Can you provide some guidance on what power level you plan to run the Pbp? So we can guage, which characters may be better than others.

Yes and No.
As I was meaning above.... BASH! is built well for having PC-Heroes of differing Character Point Values on the same team! I'd like to use and exploit this (or perhaps test it is a better term)...
However...
In general the Defenders usually took on cosmic, dimensional type threats. The BIG BOYS of villains or threats.
And they came equip with some of the heavy hitters in the Marvel U. on the team - usually 2 on the same team: such as the Hulk, Dr. Strange or Silver Surfer! Which made them equal to the Avengers if not tougher most times.

Buuuuuut... If you want an average Issue Scale - it'd likely be around: 40 pts.

EDIT: I could play submariner. He can be done in 30 points.

I'd bet so!
I might try my hand at him sometime.


NOTE...
Just 'cause I made some of those characters do NOT mean I want the stats I made to be used. In fact, I'd rather you custom them to your own liking. Considering to make the "Iconic" version of the hero as you like.
You can use my ideas as brain starters...

-kev-

[kevperrine]

and IMPERIUS REX!!

the Sub-Mariner
Namor the 1st, the Avenging Son, Old Man, Rex, Sealord
Name: King Namor McKenzie

Mental Malfunction: Mutant son of human sea captain & a princess of Atlantis, Namor is "Homo mermanus" race and a mutant, with superhuman powers. Good-natured but short-fused, formerly invader seeking vengeance for perceived wrongs surface-dwellers committed against his kingdom.
Quote: "Imperius Rex!!"

----------Stats----------
BRAWN: 4
AGILITY: 3
MIND: 1
SOAK: x4,
DEFENSE: x3
MENTAL DEFENSE: x3, Mind Shield 1

----------Powers----------
ATLANTIAN RAISED (Skillful 1) +2 Skill Slots.

ANKLE WINGS! (Flight 2) 10 sq (50')

PRESSURE TESTED (Resistance 1) 1/2 Dmg Cold & Pressure (Push)

WATER BORN (Immunity 1) Drowning

DOLPHIN SWIM (Super Swimming 5) 24 sq (120');
hold breath; add Brawn resist drowning.

FAVORED ENVIRO (Super Speed 3) Extra Panel
or trade Extra Panel for +x1 Agility/Page.
L: Only while Swimming or Flying.

ANGRY MINDED (Mind Shield 1) +x2 Mental Defense.




ELECTRIC EEL [Power Stunt - must spend Hero Die or use Versatile]
(Damaging Aura 5) x5DM; Area Med Burst 5x5 sq (25'x25') [7]

----------Advantages----------
Headquarters, Royalty, Resources, Blaze of Glory [+2 dice bonus when < 30 hits], Versatile [1/Issue Power Stunt]
----------Disadvantages----------
Freak [neither fully Atlantean nor Human], Duty [King of Atlantis], Unpleasant Quality [*: -2 Dice penalty to social rolls], Outsider [Not fully adapted to surface-world]

----------Skills----------
Athletics 2 (x4)/Swimming, Stealth (x3)/Prowling
Science (x1)/Marine Biology, Social Science 2 (x2)/Royalty/Politics

----------Weakness----------
Negating-Amphibious, lose all powers, Brawn/Agility reduced to 1 after a day out of saltwater.

----------Breakdown----------
Breakdown: 28= Stats: 16, Ads/Disads: 1, Powers: 13, Weakness: -2

----------The Origin Of...----------
"Found lost much of his memory missing, assuming humans had destroyed Atlantis, Namor rashly invaded New York to avenge the destruction of his homeland. Even after survivors of the Atlantean civilization welcomed him as their rightful king, he stubbornly spent the next several years warring with the surface world.
Eventually, Namor realized he had to put aside his hatred for humanity for the good of his people & banned official acts of war against Homo sapiens. Namor even grudgingly began defense of the surface world. First & foremost, he is the monarch of Atlantis. As such, he was beholden only to his subjects."


----------RESOURCES----------

Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namor
Marvel Universe Wiki http://marvel.com/universe/Sub-Mariner
Marvel Database http://marvel.wikia.com/Namor_McKenzie_%28Earth-616%29

BUILD COMMENTARY
Namor is awesome. He's the best and biggest * in all of Marvel... Awesome! Much better than Aquaman!! Though I do prefer calling him "THE SUB-MARINER" 'cause that's how I remember "meeting" him growing up - from the SpiderMan & His Amazing Friends cartoon - as a guest star!! (and he was a * there too!! hehe)

anyway... on with awesome...

STATS
Nope. Hard to argue the stats I chose. Namor falls squarely in the middle of ALL of those category levels I chose. EASY! hehe

POWERS
Skillfull... yeah yeah yeah... All Marvel characters seem to need it. Ugh. Hard not to.
Most of his first main powers are self-explanatory and obvious. Getting to my choice for giving him "Super Speed" might need some explanation... My thought - I wanted to show his fighting prowess without going far into the Intense Training powers. In my opinion Super Speed, giving him an Extra Panel for attacking fits well - limited by his favorite environments.
And "Mind Shield" for simply being a determined *... if anyone gets this for that reason it's Namor!

What's "Electric Eel"?? It's a little used power he *has* but rarely sees use. I decided NOT to spend points to take it. But noted it with his powers to remind as a reason to describe this as a Power Stunt if wanted to use in-game.

ADVs/DISADs & SKILLS
Most explain themselves...
It might feel over-loaded on Disads - as Freak, Outsider, and Unpleasant Quality all hit the same disadvantage that Namor has going. But ... I liked them, especially getting a -2 DP for being a *. hehe

WEAKNESS
And his weakness explains itself... It's harsh, but makes sense for all the water-hero archetypes.

and DONE!

[Saker]

Hey Kev

I really like the char sheets and pictures. Thanks for the 40 pt target, that was what I was looking for.

I'm really busy for the balance of this week, so I won't be able to post or commit to a build until the weekend at the earliest.

A couple comments on your builds:
1. Strange: His Astral Form left his body which is a limitation, no?
2. Strange: I understand that Force Field is more efficient to use for all his entanglements, but it leaves him completely defenseless. Several of the sites that I read argued that he must have something, because of the punishment he has demonstrated being able to endure. This is why I think he runs out of points.
3. Strange: I need to read Omnipotence.
4. Namor: on one of the sites I read that he can lift 100's of tons, so it should warrant a Brawn 5.
5. Namor: Shouldn't he have underwater vision and Telepathy with marine life? That's what I read yesterday.
6. Namor: While he is a *, I also read that the girls love him and he has led his troops. So I was thinking he should get Appeal.

Toh-may-tohs. Toh-mah-tohs.

cheers

[bigsteveuk]

Nice work Kev.

[Nestor]

Very nice writeups.

Personally, I have a bias against a Stat of 1 in BASH, especially for Mind. In my limited experience with the system, I've found that with the usual Difficulties characters have to roll against, a Mind of 1 frankly ends up coming across as feeble-minded instead of "normal". I guess it really depends on how the GM plays it.

Other than that, I like how you brought in a number of Luke's distinctive aspects into the sheet. Thumbs up!

[kevperrine]

A couple comments on your builds:

I'll reply with my thoughts in-line below.
As noted though...
- these are ONLY my impressions, I don't intend (or want) players in a PbP to use them without change.
- these stats are meant to be the "rookie" and "iconic" versions of the characters as if they were introduced in the Avengers animated series. So they're not in uber detail.
- I may have missed things or gotten a rule missed here or there.

1. Strange: His Astral Form left his body which is a limitation, no?

Yes, likely so. When I read Astral Projection I guess I just assumed it did that at base. It doesn't appear it does. I'd add that.

2. Strange: I understand that Force Field is more efficient to use for all his entanglements, but it leaves him completely defenseless. Several of the sites that I read argued that he must have something, because of the punishment he has demonstrated being able to endure. This is why I think he runs out of points.

So either give him some simple Armor or give him his Force Field & Immobilize. Or forget about Immobilize and keep it for Omnipotence's use.
Again...
This is a more "rookie/iconic" version. So being a little less is fine for my interpretation. And those solutions wouldn't change the point cost alot.
That said.
I hate the idea of giving a character things that max out attack/defense/movement, etc... that the character wouldn't have just to cover bases. In this case. Dr. Strange IS mostly a normal guy. He SHOULD be less defended. Look at the illustrations of him ... he is ALWAYS backing up on his heels, using his magic on the defensive at the last second.
He shouldn't be hamstringed by the stats, but he doesn't need to be kitted out just to fill a hole.

3. Strange: I need to read Omnipotence.

It's fairly simple.
For every Level of Omnipotence (that's 5 Character Points for a Cosmic Power to = 1 Level rank) You have that to "spend" in-game on ANY other power... With more levels you can match more Ehancements, etc... As is for this this rookie/iconic version, that's where I cut points. Instead of having him with 2-4 Omnipotence to have EVERY power in a spell at higher levels, I chose a low level with the idea that in-game the player could have him PUSH the power to get more juice (ie. another level of Omnipotence) if desperate.

That said... there's no reason you couldn't ditch Omnipotence all-together and rely on the Hero Die Power Stunt system completely for his other "spells"... Taking the Advantage that allows you a free Stunt as well.

4. Namor: on one of the sites I read that he can lift 100's of tons, so it should warrant a Brawn 5.

I 100% disagree with this.
Brawn 5 is rarefied air in my opinion - such as Hulk, Thor, etc...

Thing, Namor, Colossus... Those characters are significantly less strong/powerful than Marvel's heavy hitters. In there own comics or certain situations writers "write" them as more powerful.
But as a comic buff.... they're just NOT.
Colossus has "increased" over the years alot simply because the X-men got more popular and they have no other MAJOR strength based character, so they propped him up to fit (this was done in the Ultimate series a great deal).

Anyway... the BASH! system handles Stats with wide latitudes. So modeling characters like these will never hit ALL the "that website said that" categories.
But in my reading.
In my experience.
In my opinion.
Namor is a 4. SpiderMan is too... but he's on the low end of 4, while Namor (the Thing, Colossus) are all on the high end.

Other than giving a +1 or more in Heightened, there's no other real way to "show" that with BASH! Stats.

And as noted.
This is the "rookie" and "Iconic" version of Namor. So it's more of what he WAS originally and originally he was portrayed as just strong enough (or slightly stronger) to square off toe-to-toe with the Thing - another HIGH 4 (maybe very low 5) Brawn hero.

And surprisingly... all the websites you find to say otherwise, aren't always right.

5. Namor: Shouldn't he have underwater vision and Telepathy with marine life? That's what I read yesterday.

As noted above. All websites aren't right for everything.
Namor likely HAS "talked to fishes" like Aquaman in a comic or two. But that's NOT his schtick, not in any common way.
This is the "iconic" version.
Pick up any 5 Namor appearances - I'd bet a great deal that you'll never see him Telepathy, Control or anything with marine life.
In an early issue of FF he had a sea monster (one of Kirby's big monsters like Giganto) come attack with him... but I'd consider that either a use of a "contact", a one-time Power Stunt to do, or simply the Narrator playing Namor as a villain NPC who can have minions and monsters.

You could give him some kind of underwater sight. I think that's just blowing points for nothing - when almost any reasonable Narrator would say the Immunity Drowning or Super Swimming can cover that fairly.
Again - NOT a power that is "Iconicly" relied on by Namor, even though he obviously can probably SEE at ocean depths.
Or...
Maybe not. Have you ever read an Aquaman or Namor comic? Ever scene I look at shows it nice and bright at the bottom of the sea. hehe

6. Namor: While he is a *, I also read that the girls love him and he has led his troops. So I was thinking he should get Appeal.

Sure.
He's charming. And he's led troops as King. He's still a * that uses Intimidate (as a stat roll) or simply his "role-playing" as a player to do the above.
Sure...
You could give him Appeal if you wanted to play that up more in-game.
One side of me says, it's a wasted point and it'd be more fun to just role-play. The other side of me says, you're right and he is the classic very handsome * - so he "needs" appeal to cover that as a stat need.

Up to you.
-kev-

[kevperrine]

Personally, I have a bias against a Stat of 1 in BASH, especially for Mind. In my limited experience with the system, I've found that with the usual Difficulties characters have to roll against, a Mind of 1 frankly ends up coming across as feeble-minded instead of "normal". I guess it really depends on how the GM plays it.

I'd seriously chalk this up to the Narrator and the game group.
The way BASH! is written, a "1" (or even a "0") is and should be a very viable option for character builds.

Having played (with a tougher GM) I understand your point here. Rolling that 1 stat is ... less than effective.

However, I'd say that it's all in how the Narrator plays. For my money.... I'd say:
- you never make a player roll something that isn't needed, setting a Target Number for a task should ALWAYS mean there's a chance for problems if there's failure. Otherwise, don't roll... unless the character is less than competent (with a limitation or something)
- be responsible with setting Target Numbers, knowing the characters and their Stats and considering the "want" to have them fail all the time or not.
- don't overload the games with oppoenents always taking advantage of that low stat.
- remember to give nice and fair modifiers Dice Bonuses!!
- remind the players to spend Hero Points

So...
I don't see a big problem with stat scores of "1"... if the Narrator is a good one and has read and understands the BASH! rules as written.
Otherwise...
You come out with every character being over-inflated unnecessarily due to rules creep.

make sense?
-kev-

[BeardedDork]

I don't know, I think "Marvels first and mightiest mutant" as advertised on the cover of his comic in the eighties/nineties, rates a Brawn 5. 100 tons seems a bit of a lowball figure National Geographic tells me that those Blue Whales he's been seen hefting weigh up to 200 tons.

[Harrigan]

Pretty sure Namor has Monstrous (75) Strength in the original MSH game, and that seems right -- on par with the Thing, less than the Hulk, Thor, Herc, etc. So Brawn 4 would make the most sense to me.

Also found this (and one of you here is probably responsible!): http://www.scribd.com/doc/47233000/BASH ... -by-HEROIC

Namor's grouped with all the Brawn 4 dudes.

Great work here, Kev, btw. I've never been one to play published characters in published settings, but this looks neat.

[Harrigan]

And there we go. Looks like Kev authored that.

[Saker]

OK I needed a study break. I worked on Namor, because I can't imagine at the moment how to play Dr. Strange near 40 points. Kev's build not withstanding.

A few comments on my current build:

1. I reread the Marvel power description, and it was up to 100 tons. I also reviewed ocean liners which weigh 100 tons, so I can live with Brawn 4

2. I agree with the concerns of Nestor about Mind 1. Like noticing a normal thief would be a Mind 1 check. However, with your description and philosophy, I agree Namor should have a Mind 1.

3. I threw the wing limitation on his ankle-wings, because I thought it fit.

4. I went with immunity to squeezing pressure to differentiate himself from submarines that have armor and resistance. A depth of 0.85 miles applies 1 ton of water pressure per square inch. The wiki deepest ocean depth is 36,000 ft, which is about 8 tons per square inch of water pressure. He should be able to go to any depth and be fine. It could come into play if the Hulk bear hugs him instead of hitting him.

5. I went with immunity to temperatures like the power suits. It could also be resistance to heat and cold, but if the resistance half damage is applied after his soak, Namor would eventually get cold down there, which didn't make sense to me.

6. I didn't add underwater vision, because of your comment about immunity to drowning. It could just as easily be Immunity (suffocation) <only> and Super Sense 1 (darkvision) <only>.

7. I threw on an X Mastery in a multi-power with his super swimming to account for the tidal waves, sea creatures, maybe eletrical eel effect, etc. It makes power stunts cheaper, since he should have relatively many hero points. I thought I read somewhere from BASHMAN that X Mastery's in a complement multi-power was only 1 point, but I couldn't find it. If it is, I could pick-up Versatile again.

8. I dropped Resources, because I couldn't imagine and didn't read where it would ever take effect beyond his HQ and Royalty. It's not like he can buy a plane or a hotel with Atlantean coins.

9. I went with Appeal as previously noted. And added a Social Stigma, because he has declared war against humanity a few times. They could oppose each other sometimes.

10. I went with Outdoor instead of Science and added Military/Command

cheers!

===================================
Namor, the Sub-Mariner
Brawn 4 Agility 3 Mind 1
Weakness: Amphibious. Namor has a negating weakness to being dry. If he goes more than 24 hours without being immersed in saltwater, he loses his powers and his physical stats drop to B2 A1.
Powers:
Royal Tutors: Skillful 1pt
Ankle Wings! Flight 2 (10 squares) <wings> 1 pt
Half-Atlantean: Immunity (drowning, squeezing pressure, temperatures) 3 pts
Multi-Power
- Dolphin Swim: Super Swimming 4 (20 Squares) 4 pts
- X Mastery of Atlantean Domain 3 (broad: water & sea creatures) <multi> 2 pt
Combat Training: Super Speed 3 <Only> 2 pts
Strong-Willed: Mind Shield 1 (x3 Mental Defense) 1 pt

Skills: Athletics/x4 Swimming, Stealth/Prowling, Outdoor/Underwater, Social Science/x2 Politics, Military/Command
Advantages: Appeal, Headquarters, Royalty, Blaze of Glory
Disadvantages: Duty (King of Atlantis), Freak (he is different both from humans and regular Atlanteans), Outsider, Social Stigma (too many times attacking humanity),
100 Hits/x4 Soak
28 Pts (16 Stats, -2 Weakness, 14 Powers)

[kevperrine]

And there we go. Looks like Kev authored that.

LOL
I was gonna tell you that....

Actually I assure you, I ALSO have it on "good authority" from several other comic book geek friends, and at least three supers game developers (Kenson and Leitheusser, and another, hehe) that Namor's Brawn/Strength is good right at 4. Middle to top end of 4 Brawn for BASH!


Sorry BeardedDork.... No offense to you personally - but I can disagree with you no more strongly on this. It's my UBER-COMIC-BOOK-SUPERHERO-FU that has a mega ego, that has been proven correct way more than naught (I used to work with WizKids making HeroClix) around unofficial geek/game tables as well as "official" tables (ie. Marvel/DC approval)... Sorry. Like I said - NO offense. Of all the *things* in the world that I could be good at... THIS is (sadly) probably one of my strongest - knowing weird stuff about supers and rating them... LOL

I'm a sad man.

Namor is ONLY "Marvels first and mightiest mutant" because somewhere in the 70-90s some X-men writer (probably Liefeld) thought 'HEY!! technically Namor is a Mutant!! I'll USE the heck out of that!! Sell some X-books!" and technically (by Marvel's standard of what a Mutant IS) that's correct. However...
There is NO WAY that Namor would deem to lower himself to be thought of as more of a "mutant" or outright fight for the "mutant cause" with the X-men a great deal - MORE than he cares about: Atlantis, Himself, his own individual heritage, Sue Storm, or a few other gals... In THAT order. heheh

ANYWAY. I've never seen a comic show Namor lifting a whale... ever. He RIDES them alot! To give you some helpful pix:

a COOL surfing Namor! (gotta make a water-themed character who uses a Killer Whale like this ALL the time! - a Whale-Surfer!)


And a pic of Namor lifting something BIG (but not above Brawn 4 I'm sure)


And my best "proof" that Namor the Sub-Mariner cannot lift a whale (or 100 tons).....

Can't believe I found that image - it was the FIRST one that sprang to mind when you said you'd seen Namor lifting a whale... My thought... "IF he can lift a whale, how come in a cross-universe one-on-one for bragging rights does Aquaman nearly get his butt kicked by Marvels first and mighties mutant, only to WIN by calling up a whale to flop onto him?!! LOL" ... 'cause that would NOT stop: the Hulk, Thor, Gladiator, or Sentry - Marvel's four primary POWERHOUSES. (who'd each have Brawn 5)
Very few other Marvel's I can think of would have 5 Brawn. IronMan could manage it with ALOT of power kicked into his suit (and Tony's done that) but otherwise... Not many other "PC Level" heroes in Marvel could.


Lastly. I'd toss out... One of Marvel's first Namor stories (Namor, like Cap, was not an original Marvel Character), has Namor "needing" to team up with the Hulk (tricking him actually, poor Hulk...) to DESTROY THE Fantastic Four!! and have revenge on the Surface World, way back in the day.
So...
If Namor, the most egotistical * in Marvel, is as strong as the Hulk.... why "stoop" so low as to "need" to work with a oafish-fool like the Hulk at all?


Okay. Turning OFF my Marvel-Fu Ego trip.
Sorry... LOL
-kev-