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Shape changing
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WaylanderPK
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Joined: Jul 04, 2011
Posts: 189


PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:26 am    Post subject: Shape changing Reply with quote

I've gt a few questions about shape change.

1. When I alter my Agility, what happens to my Agility Skills? Do I loese a skill. gain skill (if my agility goes down/up)

2. What if my shape change is always on, what do I use for my base skills.
Id guess what eve the points I assigned to Agility.

ie:
TheSwarm - a cluster of nanites that has achieved sentience (27 Points)
Brawn Agility Mind (24)
4 4 4

Mental Malfunction: Wants to be human
Advantage: Unliving, Immortal
Disadvantage: Susceptible Magnetic Fields, Outsider(AI)
Weakness: x3 Damage from Electricity

Shape Change (always on) (3) [16 pts to distribute]
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BASHMAN
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your skill slots remain unchanged; but your multiplier to use the skill changes.

You pick a "Default mode" that is your "usual" shape, or your "go-to" shape, and use those as your main stats. So the above example would have 4 Physical and 4 mental slots for skills.

Cool character concept, btw!
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WaylanderPK
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Posts: 189


PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks BASHMAN. I pretty much assumed those where the answers but its nice to double check.

A couple of more questions bubble up, as they alwasy do Smile
If you shape change are their any powers you cant take?
For example the above could shape change into a creature with mimic,changeling,healing, or get skilful (and access to all the skills?), seems pretty powerful.

How would duplication work. Would the duplicate be what ever the shape shifted form was, or would it be the full character with 50 hits (ie have access to shape change).

I suppose the GM would have final say, but whats everybody else's feeling?

Thank for the nod on the character concept BASHMAN Wink
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BASHMAN
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would NOT allow anyone to take Training powers using Shape-Shifting.

I'd be wary of allowing Duplication or Mimic. Healing I'd be okay with, since using it means you are spending your turn doing nothing else.

In general, I'd insist that someone who wants to take other powers from the Bio Manipulation category, I'd insist that they buy them seperately. The exceptions would be for:

Extra Limbs
Growing
Shrinking
Healing
Stretching

I'd also completely ban gaining Intense Training category powers with Shape Shifting.

Those make sense to use with Shape Shift for me. But "Mimic" that is basically someone trying to get that power for free. Boost defeats the purpose of losing stats to gain powers with Shape Shift.
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Baelor
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Joined: Sep 22, 2010
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Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would it be OK to build a Shapeshift pool of Power Points? By this I mean a set of build points that are 'dedicated' to only being used in Shapeshifting, either for powers or stats, as the character requires.

This would get around the need for high stats that is sort of built in to the power. That way you could have a Beast Boy type character, with relatively normal stats, who can transform to polar bears, elephants, etc.

If I am missing something, Please LMK. No one in my game has shapeshifting, so I have no experience with the power in play.
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BASHMAN
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This would get around the need for high stats that is sort of built in to the power. That way you could have a Beast Boy type character, with relatively normal stats, who can transform to polar bears, elephants, etc.


For a character like that, I also give the "Normal" disad. Their stats reflect their "Go to" form; basically the highest-stat option with no powers. Typically it would be balanced with stats of B3 A3, or B4 A4.

When they are not transformed into something, the Normal Disad kicks in, and stats revert to 2 or less for Brawn and Agility.
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Baelor
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That works too!
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Deecely
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello again. Just to clarify the distinction between Shape-Shifting and Mimic:

Shape Shifting lets you alter your composition (flesh vs. metal, etc.) AND/OR your form (bird, lion, etc), allowing you to shift AG and BR around or into new powers.

Mimic lets you turn into non-complicated inanimate objects only, with some benefits for growth and shrinking built in, and with partial body changes built in at higher levels.

Am I understanding those correctly?

Would you be able to turn into an inanimate object with Shape Shifting? Or change only your ears cartoonishly huge to gain the "Keen Senses (hearing)" power? Is a giant hammer via Mimic the same as a giant hammer (or a man-sized hammer, which is giant) via Shape Shifting?

The example in RAW of using Shape Shifting to become a functional motorcycle would lead me to believe so, but I get the sense from other places I've read that Mimic is primarily for "things" and Shape-Shift is primarily for "creatures" or "composition". Or "things that work functionally", too?

Help!
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MrJupiter
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my interpretation as well. Mimic = look like something. Shape Shifting = become that something (you just need to make sure that you have enough Brawn and Agility to buy the needed powers and maintain an appropriate ability score.

I have made characters that don't technically alter their appearance with Shape Shifting but use the power to alter their stats (i.e. dumping some Brawn to increase Agility) or, for one of my characters with an alien super suit, dump a stat in order to manifest a power (the guy is a Normal and his high Brawn/Agility comes from the suit anyway).

This last one might be technically cheating, but BASH doesn't really have a traditional Omni-power (except for the Cosmic Omnipotence, if it is even allowed by the Narrator). [Shape-Shifting costs 4pts and the dropping of a Brawn or Agility to buy appropriate powers vs. Omnipotence's 5pt cost for the 2 Character Points worth of powers and no stat point loss.]


Last edited by MrJupiter on Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Deecely
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For your alien super-suit character, do you consider his use of Shape Shifting as a limitation (can't change shape to swap AG & BR stats, but can only use them to buy powers)?

One of my players is leaning in this direction, conceptually. He's less interested in turning into a cat or a bird or a table but wants to be able to modify his physical form to take on other powers for a bit.
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BASHMAN
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's Shape-Shifting.
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Deecely
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, what? What about the turning into a functional motorcycle part? Does shapeshift allow folks to turn into objects? Is it basically "Mimic plus an ability to juggle stats"?
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MrJupiter
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shape-Shifting is a great power for the cost. With Mimic 4 you could manifest your arm into a useful sword (especially handy if you had Weapon Technique for sword fighting). While you could turn your hand into a gun, it would only be a replica of a gun and would not actually shoot bullets (but great for bluffing).

With Shape-Shifting, skinned the right way, you could put that trick used by The Mask and turn your hand into a functioning gun (drop a point of Brawn and gain Special Attack power). Unless the player defines his Shape-Shifting power as become anything, most Narrators probably wouldn't allow your hero to become animals and machines and take on the physical characteristics of a material ("I turn into living stone").

As for the power-altering super suit, it could technically be given a limitation like 'doesn't change shape' but I'd rule it on a case-by-case basis. Personally, I believe that the essence of Shape-Shifting is a transforming power and that taking on powers that don't mimic physical characteristics should probably require an enhancement to gain those benefits. By the rules as written, it doesn't state that you cannot drop a level of your Agility stat to gain Telekinesis 2, but it does feel a bit like a stretch to interpret the rules that way.
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Deecely
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrJupiter wrote:
Personally, I believe that the essence of Shape-Shifting is a transforming power and that taking on powers that don't mimic physical characteristics should probably require an enhancement to gain those benefits. By the rules as written, it doesn't state that you cannot drop a level of your Agility stat to gain Telekinesis 2, but it does feel a bit like a stretch to interpret the rules that way.


Exactly! I feel the same way. I'd even go farther and say that it shouldn't let you turn into something that has any ammo-based ranged attack. I know I shouldn't necessarily worry about conservation of mass in a comic book role-playing game, but it seems totally bonkers for a guy to turn into a gun, a la the Mask, say, and literally shoot what must be pieces of body out at foes (where else would the ammo have to come from?).

I like your idea of limiting the "scope" of shape-shift to animals OR devices OR different composition as a conceptual trick, but it wouldn't effect any game mechanics in terms of stat/power swapping, would it?

My players are totally willing to go with my Narrator's Fiat, but I want to be sure to set some clear and consistent expectations that aren't too limiting and yet not too enabling, as well as be able to distinguish clearly between Mimic and Shape Shift.
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BASHMAN
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You cannot use Shape-Shift to turn into inanimate objects. You can't use it to turn into a table or a parachute. That is what Mimic is for.

OTOH, you can use Shape-Shift to turn into a functioning motorcycle (the Transformers all have such similar powers).

Typically Shape-Shift is a good power to put some sort of descriptor on, even if it isn't a limit perse. For instance, being able to change into animals or into machines, are broad enough they shouldn't count as limitations. But it's perfectly sensible for the Narrator to ask the player to specify what type of things the character can change into.

A person turning into a car may seem silly (thanks, Turbo Teen) but a robot that turns into a car, jet, and has a number of other "modes" seems to make perfect sense to me. As for the "Ammo", if it is a robot we're talking about, that makes sense. The ammo is stored inside the robotic body and part of the transformation process makes it usable.

But for a living person to suddenly turn their arms into guns that fire bullets does seem silly. Instead they might shoot bursts of concentrated energy, even "hard light bullets" but not actual pieces of lead.
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